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Title: How to Kiss a Girl
Fandom: Newsies
Pairing: David Jacobs/Jack Kelly
Categories/Genres: Alternate Universe, Romance, First Time
Length: Medium (2846 words)
Warnings: N/A
Author on LJ:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
cymbalism219
Author Website: cymbalism
Summary:
Jack discovers he may need a little help in the dating department. David offers some important advice.
Review:
Ask any fanfiction writer if they think relationship fics are genuine representations of real life relationships. If the writer in question says, “Yes,” it's probably because they are a) not thinking very hard about the question, b) lying, or c) are basing their answer on having read cymbalism's How to Kiss a Girl.
Romance fic, especially of the slash variety, tends to play out in an idealized fashion, glossing over the long string of dates between first introduction and first sexual intimacy that real life people subject themselves to. Any regular reader of slash fiction can probably think of at least a good double handful of fics off the top of their head where the couple in question's first kiss was followed within two thousand words by their first sex scene.
Fun to read, I'll admit, but not particularly realistic. Which is why I've been enamored of cymbalism's How to Kiss a Girl since the first time I read it, though it took me some time to figure out why. It's because unlike a lot of slash fic, where it's all about the end goal of hot dude-on-dude action, How to Kiss a Girl is about the build-up, the glancing touches, the caresses, the modest seduction leading up to the first kiss. Not the heavy tongue action that preludes sex, but that first chaste touch of lips that says, “I really like like you.”
cymbalism makes masterful use of body language in the portrayal of David and Jack to show the subtle interest that stews between them. It simmers, bubbles gently as Jack reaches a personal epiphany, but even though it never reaches a scalding boil, the descriptions of their relatively chaste kisses and touches still manage to be swelteringly gorgeous.
How to Kiss a Girl
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Fandom: Newsies
Pairing: David Jacobs/Jack Kelly
Categories/Genres: Alternate Universe, Romance, First Time
Length: Medium (2846 words)
Warnings: N/A
Author on LJ:
cymbalism219 Author Website: cymbalism
Summary:
Jack discovers he may need a little help in the dating department. David offers some important advice.
Review:
Ask any fanfiction writer if they think relationship fics are genuine representations of real life relationships. If the writer in question says, “Yes,” it's probably because they are a) not thinking very hard about the question, b) lying, or c) are basing their answer on having read cymbalism's How to Kiss a Girl.
Romance fic, especially of the slash variety, tends to play out in an idealized fashion, glossing over the long string of dates between first introduction and first sexual intimacy that real life people subject themselves to. Any regular reader of slash fiction can probably think of at least a good double handful of fics off the top of their head where the couple in question's first kiss was followed within two thousand words by their first sex scene.
Fun to read, I'll admit, but not particularly realistic. Which is why I've been enamored of cymbalism's How to Kiss a Girl since the first time I read it, though it took me some time to figure out why. It's because unlike a lot of slash fic, where it's all about the end goal of hot dude-on-dude action, How to Kiss a Girl is about the build-up, the glancing touches, the caresses, the modest seduction leading up to the first kiss. Not the heavy tongue action that preludes sex, but that first chaste touch of lips that says, “I really like like you.”
cymbalism makes masterful use of body language in the portrayal of David and Jack to show the subtle interest that stews between them. It simmers, bubbles gently as Jack reaches a personal epiphany, but even though it never reaches a scalding boil, the descriptions of their relatively chaste kisses and touches still manage to be swelteringly gorgeous.
How to Kiss a Girl
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chasethestars
chasethestars
Comments
glossing over the long string of dates between first introduction and first sexual intimacy that real life people subject themselves to
Is this reality in the US? I'm from Germany and I know all the cliches about dating from TV-shows and movies, and I always wonder how much of this happens in real life. My single days are long gone (I'm in a relationship since the early 90s), but as I experienced it and as it still seems to be here, you don't "date". You either know someone already (friends of friends, collegues, someone from college or school, whatever), you meet by chance or because you're actively seeking someone (that one might be the closest to "dating"). Anyway, you fall in love or not, and this is usually a rather quick decision. You maybe pine for a while and are not sure if it's a good thing to make the first move (if you're not sure how the other one feels). Or you might not consider someone at all who makes the first move towards you and you have to decide how to react. But there is no period of time while you are "dating" in a sense as "we are romantically interested in each other but will need a few weeks to be sure about it". In my memory people are together like bang, and if it doesn't fit, they'll seperate a few days or weeks later. Especially teens and twens. And if they're grown up they have sex with the one they fall in love with. Very soon. Because, well, that's the thing you usually want to do with the one you fall in love with. (I realize that there are people who don't feel like this for different reasons, but well, many do.)
So, what I really wanted to say is that to me it doesn't seem very unrealistic to fall in love and have sex soon after ;) Maybe it's a cultural difference. Or maybe it's just me and other Germans / Europeans would see this totally different.
Edit: I should maybe add that this was a very well written rec and I loved the fic! I actually love fics that take a romance slowly - in the sense of taking the time to describe kissing, touching, the feeling of closeness and so on. (Sorry I can't express myself that well in english...)
Edited 2014-11-02 01:19 pm (UTC)
In the US, it's not uncommon for middle schoolers (11-14) to be in relationships, to be 'in love', (for whatever value one believes a pre- or early teen can understand romantic love), with little or no sexual expression. Elementary schoolers (6-10) can form play relationships, utterly without a sexual element. Even in high school (15-18), where there's a lot more awareness of and pressure to be sexual in relationships, there are teenage couples who don't engage in sex, either by decree of social mores or by personal choice. So there is certainly a precedent for American adults entering relationships of the idea of 'chaste dating'.
Also, you have to understand that American culture as it pertains to sexuality is still heavily influenced by the ideas of the Puritans and by conservative and/or religious groups who use their political influence to block legislation providing comprehensive sex education in schools. So not only is there a lot of mystery for teens about sex, but there's also a pervasive message taught to children that you save sex for marriage, or at least someone you intend to marry.
Also, I couldn't say how people define 'dating' in Germany, but in America, 'dating' is broadly defined the time between when two (or more, I suppose) acquaintances (or friends, or even strangers) first decide to explore a mutual attraction and the point at which they get engaged to be married. Because again, American culture focuses on marriage as the ultimate form of romantic attachment. (Ergo why there is such a huge push for gay marriage rather than settling for civil unions.) The importance of marriage to Americans is even enshrined in US tax and property law (among others), which provide all manner of benefits to married couples (that they sometimes neglect to grant to civil unions).
But to get back to your point, people generally decide to date because they're interested in exploring the potential of a romantic relationship as opposed to a platonic one. It's used as a time to learn about each other in a romantic context. Sex may come at some point down the road, either sooner or later depending on the parties involved and the level of familiarity before they start dating. Maybe sex never happens at all, again either by societal pressures in favor of abstinence before marriage or by personal preference.
In fact, if you'll notice in the recc'd fic itself, one of the criticisms leveled at Jack is that his technique mad it seem like "kissing was a step to cross off on a how-to-get-into-her-pants checklist." In the US, saying that a guy you're dating is dating you just to get in your pants is an unambiguous insult to any guy who isn't a misogynist. Ergo why David uses the word "pushy" to soften the blow, and why Jack is so embarrassed. There's an expectation of love before sex, and dating is a tool to help foster the familiarity that leads to love, so pushing sex when the two parties are still getting to know each other is considered gauche and rude and legitimate grounds for breakup.
As to falling in love being "usually a rather quick decision" as you said above, dating is not typically initiated by feelings of love, but rather by attraction and interest. Also I'm not sure that the actual process of falling in love is usually quick. Maybe discovering that you're in love with someone is quick, but the actual process, well, I find that I generally distrust the emotional maturity people who put too much stock in love at first sight, especially when the divorce rate in America is around 50%. (Though I suspect that there'll be a noticeable trend in the younger generations toward more casual sex without love or even relationships as a prerequisite as the conservative blowhards steadily start dying off.)
Wow, that got longwinded. TL;DR, dating is the getting-to-know-you period between figuring out the guy you fancy happens to fancy you back and putting a ring on it. Love and sex typically happen somewhere in that time.
In Germany, there are still more people marrying than not I guess. But it isn’t the goal of all goals in live it seems to be in american media. And, if I understand you correctly, as well in real life. There‘s also no culture of proposing with a ring - which might change, because we are watching a lot of american TV-shows ;)
Not to have sex before marriage, on the other hand, is something that is rather rare. I’m sure there are religious people who do it that way, but, well, rarely. (And I‘m coming from a catholic background.) What you’d expect as standard is, that people in a relationship are having sex as well. (I know that there are numerous reasons why people don’t have sex, and that’s O.K., I’m just talking about what people would assume.)
Elementary schoolers (6-10) can form play relationships, utterly without a sexual element.
That’s rather unknown here as well (and it puzzles me when I see it on TV-shows). Small kids might „play house“, but that‘s something different. Romantic relationships start around 12, 13, 14 – more or less serious. But it’s not uncommon if it’s later, if you’re 16 or 17 or even older when you have your first boyfriend (or girlfriend). You definitely don’t need to have a boy- or girlfriend. You might like to and many have, but it’s not that uncommon that you’d be totally singled out if you’re in no relationship. For example – there’s no prom where you’d be expected to go with a date. (Thank god, that would have been awkward.) Teenage sex is not exactly promoted in Germany, but people know that it is what happens and we rather try to educate teenagers to be responsible, have safe sex, and don’t feel pressured to have sex before they feel ready. (That’s the ideal. If I think back to my teenage years I often felt that my female friends who were already having sex did it because they felt obliged rather than because they enjoyed it.)
What seems different to me, between Germany and the US: The pressure to date seems to be high in the US while on the other hand there’s a lot of pressure on not having sex. I always wonder why you encourage young people to date when you expect them to not have sex. Here, parents would rather try to stop teens from dating when they think they are to young to have sex.
But to come back to „the dating“ itself - Also, I couldn't say how people define 'dating' in Germany, but in America, 'dating' is broadly defined the time between when two (or more, I suppose) acquaintances (or friends, or even strangers) first decide to explore a mutual attraction and the point at which they get engaged to be married.
It’s the „engaged to be married“ that’s different. Dating in Germany would be the time between when you start to explore the possibility of a romantic relationship and the point were you say „I’m in a relationship / I’m in love“. Marriage might happen some time later or never at all. The important point is when *you* define it as a relationship, between the two of you, or when you start to tell other people „this is my boyfriend/girlfriend“ (or „partner“). Sex might happen somewhere on the road, as you say. „Being in a relationship“ meens that you intend it to be forever, although it more often than not doesn’t work out that way. Then it’s „we’re seperated“.
My husband and I married after being in a relationship for fourteen years. We „dated“ if you can call it that at all for three or four days (I was 19, he was 21, he told me that he was in love with me and asked me out.) It would have been totally alien to me to say we were dating those fourteen years. But even teens who are in a three month relationship are calling it a relationship, not dating. Still there is a difference I didn’t consider when I first commented: For most people, relationships get closer when they are moving together. So possible stages of a relationship are:
- Getting to know each other („dating“)
- Beeing together, but still living separate (that’s the stage initiated by saying „I love you“ to each other)
- Being together and living together
- (if it happens: Having children together)
It doesn’t necessary have to be that way though, e.g. I know a couple that’s together for more than 25 years and they never lived together.
I’m sorry, this is getting rather long drawn … just one more thing ;)
Also I'm not sure that the actual process of falling in love is usually quick.
I didn’t use this right, I suspect. In German there’s a diffrence between „sich verlieben“ (which I did translate with „falling in love“ but maybe you’d rather say „feel attracted“?) and „jemanden lieben“ (to love someone). The first is this euphoric feeling when you are thinking you love soemone and that someone loves you back. This might get you over the first few weeks together. Then you’ll realize if you *really* fit together, if you really love each other in a way that will make it possible to form a longlasting partnership. Teens will normally say „we’re together, we’re in love“ the minute after they’ve fallen in love. Grown-ups will maybe wait for a few weeks before they announce to the world that they are in love. I don’t believe in „love at first sight“ either, I think it’s just luck if the „falling in love“ / „love at first sight“ happens to develop into love.
I think part of the reason young children in America create play relationships is because of the movies they watch. I mean, if you go to any American movie theater, a good three quarters of what's showing at the time are going to have some form of romantic subplot. In fact, before Pixar came along, I think almost all children's movies had a romantic subplot, especially the Disney Princess movies. So after being exposed to those movies, children learn by observation that girls and boys are supposed to love and kiss each other. And then, when they grow up to become parents, they reinforce that in their own children by showing them the same kinds of movies. So 'relationship indoctrination' begins reeeeaaally young, I guess you could say.
Weird, but that seems to be how it is in America.
Also, I literally cannot stress the importance of American prudishness when it comes to discussing sex. Parents won't let schools teach about it, but they also feel too embarrassed to sit their kids down and discuss it frankly. So the only place to learn about sex is from the media and the internet. Girls watch chick flicks, which pair sex with love, while boys watch porn on the internet, which pairs sex with the false idea that all sex is just like it is in porn. And nobody wants to tell them the reality of how sex and relationships mesh together, so.... Well, it's basically a mess of socially enforced ignorance. (If anyone you know ever enters a relationship with an America, tell them to watch out for that, please.)
But yeah, dating is an extremely broad category. Those fourteen years before you and your husband were together before marrying would definitely be called dating. In fact, you'd probably get a lot of concerned folk wondering what was wrong with you and your husband that you dated for so long before getting married! I couldn't quote any statistics for you, but it seems like the outside edge of a 'normal' dating period is something like four or five years. Anything longer and people start to wonder if they're really in love, or if there's some other problem in the relationship that makes them less committed than if they'd gotten married.
Also, after learning about how the American and German ideas about relationships and dating and marriage are so different, I'm totally not surprised that there was a translation mix-up. In fact, judging by the differences in the definitions of 'dating', I'd say that the American concept of 'dating' would be more accurately translated to the German concept of 'relationship'.
But again, thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me! I'm one of those people who loves to learn new things about different cultures, so this was really enlightening. And double thanks for doing it in English! It still impresses me so much when I meet someone who can communicate so fluently in multiple languages. <3